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The majority of PD-algorithm uploads by new users aren't AI. What should we do about it?
I've been working through the results of abuse filter 298 and the overwhelming majority of uploads are not AI art. Working through the last 500 or so (from January 12 through today), my back of the envelope estimate is:
- 85% are non-AI images where the uploader is not the creator. These have been or will shortly be deleted as copyvios/no source/no permission.
- 5% are non-AI images where the uploader is the creator. These often have both PD-algo and another license until either they or a patroller fix the file page.
- 5% are non-AI images where the uploader is not the creator, but the file can be kept because of PD-textlogo, PD-old, etcetera.
- 5% are actually AI images.
Making matters worse, a lot of the AI images that are uploaded by new users aren't within scope. There is lots of debate about AI images and scope in DRs, but there's broad agreement that files with rendering issues so bad that the files can't be used on sister projects are generally out of scope, and a lot of the uploads are things like this clock with two Xs or this illustration of Shakespeare where none of the anatomy, architecture, or text makes sense.
On the one hand, Filter 298 is working exactly as intended, as patrollers are able to use it to neutralize a large amount of copyvios. On the other hand, I suspect that most of the time, people are just clicking the checkbox in the upload wizard because it's there and lets uploaders bypass having to answer other questions about the file's authorship. It being a prominent default option may be doing more harm than good.
Should we remove the AI checkbox from the upload wizard or delay where/change how AI can be selected as an option there? The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 06:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- That's as clear-cut a case as there could possibly be. 95% incorrect, and much of that 5% useless. The AI checkbox should be removed from Upload Wizard entirely, or at least heavily restricted (30/500 would be my vote). Pi.1415926535 (talk) 06:37, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- @The Squirrel Conspiracy: Did your "PD-aglo" mean "PD-algorithm" or something else? - Jmabel ! talk 00:16, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I meant PD-algorithm. I use PD-algo as a shorthand because I can't always remember how to spell "algorithm". The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 02:49, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- even as a shorthand, "PD-algo" would have been a lot clearer. - Jmabel ! talk 19:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- That's what I thought I was typing. As I said, I cannot seem to spell that word correctly. Fixed! The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:28, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- even as a shorthand, "PD-algo" would have been a lot clearer. - Jmabel ! talk 19:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I meant PD-algorithm. I use PD-algo as a shorthand because I can't always remember how to spell "algorithm". The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 02:49, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Sannita (WMF): in case you are not following this page, probably a thread you will want to follow. - Jmabel ! talk 00:16, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Pi.1415926535: still, if it is (as seems to be indicated above) an 85% accurate predictor of copyvios, it might be worth having. Sort of like the discovery of penicillin. - Jmabel ! talk 00:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW, I've noticed this as well from patrolling Special:NewFiles with no consideration of edit filters--erroneous PD-algorithm claims have become very common. In case it's related, there has also been a noticeable increase in bogus {{PD-USGov}} claims--not the typical federal v. state conflation, but use with images that have no relationship to any government entity (e.g., movie posters, random Internet images, etc.) Whatever change was made to the UploadWizard should be reconsidered. Эlcobbola talk 19:33, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, this is an issue, but more general than only miss-tagging files. How do we prevent people from uploading copyright violations and out-of-scope images? It is much better that copyvios are uploaded without any license, than with a wrong license. Yann (talk) 09:59, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- We still can't change the fact that people can't read, ignore multiple texts, and deliberately lie by checking the checkmark where they confirm they filled in the form correctly and aren't uploading copyrighted material. Previously the file would be uploaded as CC-BY-SA and would also end up in a big backlog. I think the UploadWizard is clear enough. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 13:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Inappropriate caption
(Copied from COM:Village pump)
Last week, IP user User:196.188.120.153 edited the English caption for File:Ethiopia Plate of portable altar.jpg to say "ITS OFFENSIVE AND WILL BE PUNISHED". This is clearly not acceptable, but I'm not sure what should be done. There are religious sensibilities involved here. For some context, see this discussion on the English Wikipedia help desk, and recent edit summaries in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tabot&action=history .--ColinFine (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- I've reverted the text. I would suggest protecting the page and asking the IP editor to maybe discuss this reasonably first, or else simply blocking any suitable IP space. We might question how important it is to test someone's religious sensibilities like this, but "WILL BE PUNISHED" is a clear threat and I'm tired of those. We work by debate here (as badly as we are at that), not religious dogma. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'd been wondering about that image, as well as File:Äthiopien_Tabot_Linden-Museum_90290.jpg, for reasons I've explained at the English Wikipedia help desk (linked above). I will note that this artifact no longer appears in the MNW's collection, or at least not via its website (link). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- Added semiprotection for File:Ethiopia Plate of portable altar.jpg, added the other to my watchlist so if it needs to be protected, I can do so quickly. Abzeronow (talk) 18:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Jmabel ! talk 20:19, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- We might want a warning along the lines of the ones we have for Communist and Nazi symbols. Yes, I realize the case is not exactly parallel. - Jmabel ! talk 00:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I can see a warning about religious sensitivities being useful. Abzeronow (talk) 21:58, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- To go one more step: a warning template like this would probably be a good thing, but there is really no admin issue here. - Jmabel ! talk 02:02, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Getting further afield from the original captioning issue, I'd suggest there could/should be a licensing issue for images of objects with dubious provenance. As of yet I'm unable to find any relevant policy, guideline, or consensus. I know this isn't the place for discussing that, but where is it? COM:VP? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:14, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Gyrofrog: I'm not sure what you are driving at. Commons doesn't normally refuse in-scope images for non-copyright reasons. There are a lot of objects of questionable provenance in a lot of museums. That may be an issue for ownership of the object, but not for an image. - 19:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Jmabel: What I'm getting at is that if an object is (for example) war loot, and the museum where it's located puts it on display, then without clearer/better provenance, taking a picture of it and asserting "public domain" (or some Creative Commons license etc.) becomes problematic. Perhaps not legally problematic (or perhaps it is?), but ethically. I'm imagining a scenario where someone borrows an exotic sports car, then finds out the person who loaned out the car smuggled it in & that the car may have been stolen in the first place. But then the driver keeps borrowing the car (and then loans it out for a photo shoot). In some places, that's legal; I'd argue that it's wrong, anywhere. Again, this probably isn't the place for it... I guess I'll take this to COM:VP. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Problematic, but not a copyright issue. - Jmabel ! talk 20:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Jmabel: What I'm getting at is that if an object is (for example) war loot, and the museum where it's located puts it on display, then without clearer/better provenance, taking a picture of it and asserting "public domain" (or some Creative Commons license etc.) becomes problematic. Perhaps not legally problematic (or perhaps it is?), but ethically. I'm imagining a scenario where someone borrows an exotic sports car, then finds out the person who loaned out the car smuggled it in & that the car may have been stolen in the first place. But then the driver keeps borrowing the car (and then loans it out for a photo shoot). In some places, that's legal; I'd argue that it's wrong, anywhere. Again, this probably isn't the place for it... I guess I'll take this to COM:VP. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- If you wish to discuss changing the terms of "licensing [...] for images of objects with dubious provenance", then the appropriate place is with your elected representative, not on Commons. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:46, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Gyrofrog: I'm not sure what you are driving at. Commons doesn't normally refuse in-scope images for non-copyright reasons. There are a lot of objects of questionable provenance in a lot of museums. That may be an issue for ownership of the object, but not for an image. - 19:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Getting further afield from the original captioning issue, I'd suggest there could/should be a licensing issue for images of objects with dubious provenance. As of yet I'm unable to find any relevant policy, guideline, or consensus. I know this isn't the place for discussing that, but where is it? COM:VP? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:14, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- To go one more step: a warning template like this would probably be a good thing, but there is really no admin issue here. - Jmabel ! talk 02:02, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I can see a warning about religious sensitivities being useful. Abzeronow (talk) 21:58, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- We might want a warning along the lines of the ones we have for Communist and Nazi symbols. Yes, I realize the case is not exactly parallel. - Jmabel ! talk 00:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
User page should be deleted for promotion. -- Nintendofan885T&Cs apply 10:56, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Done by Gbawden. Yann (talk) 12:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
I just blocked this user on en-wiki; their images are vandalism as well. Drmies (talk) 02:22, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Not done. I do not think so. You can nominate uploads for regular deletion one by one, if you consider them vandalistic. Taivo (talk) 16:17, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Please block AntiCompositeBot
@AntiCompositeBot is malfunctioning. It's trying to find files those foes not contain copright info, but it looks at only templates and this results to wrong alarms for example look at the history of File:Letters SVG?2Esvg.png (please don't say something like "that's a bad filename", i explained the reason in the file page). I didn't put a copyright template to that page because i can't found a suitable template (the template that's added by the wizard is unsuitable). Until that bug is solved by the operator of the bot, please Special:Block/AntiCompositeBot. RuzDD (talk) 23:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- Not done The MediaWiki software (and bots) can only detect the presence of a license when it's a defined license template. For this reason, plaintext is not suitable for licensing. If you have not made substantial changes to a file, then you should simply copy the license from the original image.
- I have deleted this particular file as an unneeded and unused duplicate. Unless there are on-wiki rendering issues with an SVG, we don't need a (almost unusably tiny) PNG copy generated from the SVG. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:03, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- This deletion process is for which speedy deletion criteria or discussion @Pi.1415926535? RuzDD (talk) 00:05, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Since this is not duplicete: one of PNG while the other is SVG. RuzDD (talk) 00:07, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- F8. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:07, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Probably there's an edit conflict happened and you could not see my second message @Pi.1415926535. RuzDD (talk) 00:08, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Unless there is a specific on-wiki use case (such as the known text rendering bugs), there is rarely a need to create a PNG copy of an existing SVG file. The MediaWiki software generates PNG versions of all SVG files (which any external reuser can use). Your file had no valid on-wiki use, especially at such a small size that pixelation was obvious. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- I can read the text says "SVG" easily. MW engine cannot generate thumbnails smaller than 2kb in most cases. Most of icons are in much smaller resolutions. This file is not very important for me but i think that's weird.
- Anyway, i think plain text licenses can be determined by robots. For example, if there's a phrase like "public domain" i think bots can consider the file as publicdomain. RuzDD (talk) 00:21, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- @RuzDD: A bot cannot readily tell the difference between "this file is in the public domain" and (for example) "this file derives from several sources, some of which are in the public domain" etc. There is no way it can be programmed to always pick up context.
- You've repeatedly complained about how mediawiki renders PNG from SVG, and repeatedly been told there is a consensus to the contrary, and that if you want to change this you are going to have to change the consensus, not make ad hoc files on your own. I believe last time this came up you were told to take your case to Commons:Village pump/Technical. - Jmabel ! talk 01:44, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- 1: You're right. 2: I understood now, thanks. RuzDD (talk) 01:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Unless there is a specific on-wiki use case (such as the known text rendering bugs), there is rarely a need to create a PNG copy of an existing SVG file. The MediaWiki software generates PNG versions of all SVG files (which any external reuser can use). Your file had no valid on-wiki use, especially at such a small size that pixelation was obvious. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Probably there's an edit conflict happened and you could not see my second message @Pi.1415926535. RuzDD (talk) 00:08, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- This deletion process is for which speedy deletion criteria or discussion @Pi.1415926535? RuzDD (talk) 00:05, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
IP issue
Looks like we have a troll, at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Qantas Boeing 707 and Boeing 747-200 at Longreach's Qantas Founders Outback Museum.jpg. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:03, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Artwork uploaded to Commons now used as fact
The modern artwork shown is a misinterpretation by the modern artist of an antelope as a predator. The correct images can be seen in this screendump from a recent study. The file is unfortunately used all over the place now as an example of prehistoric art, which amounts to disinformation. I have removed the link to the file from some articles, but really, this image should be removed as misleading. It may even be a subtle trolling of the wikipedia system. Ratel (talk) 02:39, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- Not done It is up to local projects to solve factual disputes. I've changed the thumbnail description on en.wiki to "Modern artist's impression of a zoomorphic pictogram like those that would be in Apollo 11 Cave, Namibia", but the file is within COM:SCOPE so we're not going to remove it. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2024 (UTC)