Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:PD Switzerland (Individuality)

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:PD Switzerland (Individuality)[edit]

See also Commons:Deletion requests/PD-Switzerland-photo Cases which was closed as deleted by me. - Due to a 2020 change in Swiss copyright law, photos of three-dimensional objects that have no individual character, previously not protected by copyright at all, are now protected for 50 years after creation. For more information, see the paragraph Non-individual photographs in COM:TOO Switzerland. The change is retroactive, though existing uses stay legal. This means that legally we could still use these - only! - on Commons and in Wikipedia articles where they were in use prior to April 1, 2020, but new uses - in Wikipedia as well as externally - would require permission by the copyright owner. As the amended legacy template {{PD-Switzerland-photo}} says, "This photograph will therefore have to be deleted as its license is not compatible with the Wikimedia Commons licensing policy" (they're no longer freely re-usable). There is a new template {{PD-Switzerland-photo-non-individual-50-years}} that can be used for photos without individual character that are older than 50 years, but these photos are all too new for that. If the photos are deleted, {{PD-Switzerland-photo}} can be deleted too, as it then will be no longer in use.

Gestumblindi (talk) 15:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The coins should remain kept as they are scans. I'm still against also the other cases, but if the community stays in favor for delteing the pics then ok.--Sanandros (talk) 19:53, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't like this action either, but I've removed and replaced my pictures in the articles. So the stuff on the list that I uploaded can go. Pechristener (talk) 22:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sanandros: If it can really be assumed that the coin images are mere scans, I wouldn't disagree with keeping them and replacing the license with {{PD-Scan}}. But I'm not sure, so adding a comment to the relevant files above and leaving for the closing admin to decide. But File:Senonesstater.jpeg, File:Venetistater1.jpeg, and File:Vericastater.jpeg look to three-dimensional to be a scan, in my opinion. Gestumblindi (talk) 14:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We can check if scan is apropriate in another DR. But the individual crativtiy is for me too little with these coins.--Sanandros (talk) 16:42, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't see how a coin could be anything else but a three-dimensional object ? (Art. 2 COPA : "Photographic depictions and depictions of three-dimensional objects produced by a process similar to that of photography are considered works, even if they do not have individual character"). Omnilaika02 (talk) 19:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agree, but it doesn't matter, because coins are "means of payment". Article 5 b clearly says that coins are not copyrighted! --Saippuakauppias (talk) 21:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Saippuakauppias: (first, so you have basically copied my comments for coins above, but that's fine) The concerns are not about copyright for the coins themselves (these would be far too old for copyright anyway, even disregarding Article 5 b) but the depictions of the coins. As the coins aren't completely flat, Omnilaika02 argues that the images depict 3D objects and therefore, as photos, enjoy the new protection of 50 years for non-individual photographs of 3D objects (the copyright status of the object itself is irrelevant). Sanandros on the other hand argues that these are not photos, but mere scans, despite the 3D elements of the coins. Gestumblindi (talk) 10:37, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm sorry, but I don't get the "mere scan" argument. I don't see how a coin could be 2 dimensional? Especially old, engraved coins.
@Saippuakauppias art. 5 COPA only apply to swiss means of payment. And still, taking a picture of an actual, CHF 5 coin would still create a copyright by the photographer. Omnilaika02 (talk) 12:52, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I suppose that Sanandros believes that these coins were not actually photographed, but placed on a (flat bed) scanner und thus scanned merely mechanically, without involving the skill of a photographer which would create the protection for non-individual photographs. But how to prove this, I wonder? If we apply COM:PCP, maybe we should rather delete the coin images, too. Gestumblindi (talk) 12:56, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What license banner should be used then? I doubt those picture were obtained using a flatbed scanner though… PCP should be applied. Omnilaika02 (talk) 13:11, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If it is a flatbed scan, I would use {{PD-scan}}, as the coins themselves are all very old and PD. But there's the "if"... Gestumblindi (talk) 13:20, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for doing this deletion request. I also manually checked the files to "save" what could be saved: we are looking at the remaining ones here, and we have no other choice. Omnilaika02 (talk) 19:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You see it out of the picture, if someboy would use a camera you'd see shadows on the sides, even with multiple flashes. Older pics could be done with a camera but File:Zurich, Schilling 1640.jpeg is for sure a scan.--Sanandros (talk) 19:24, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If it looks like a scan, it is a scan. Because all coins are (relatively) flat. I would argue, that all flat objects, if they are not taken as in a 3D perspective, they fall under the "scan" argument. Saippuakauppias (talk) 17:00, 29 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
After some thoughts and review, I can get behind that opinion. {{PD-scan}} exists for a reason. Omnilaika02 (talk) 19:23, 29 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Coins aren't protected. Scans aren't protected. These scans of coins aren't protected. Go back through and remove all these deletion templates. — LlywelynII 15:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If have no problem if the admin processing this request decides that the few images in the list above (all already marked with a comment) which are of coins (it's of course clear that these very old coins themselves aren't protected) can be considered scans or scan-like enough to have no protection *as photos* and keeps them with {{PD-Scan}}. This applies only to the coin photographs/scans, however. Gestumblindi (talk) 19:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Gestumblindi, @LlywelynII: Ok, so can we remove the requests for the coins? ("request withdrawn per discussion") --Saippuakauppias (talk) 18:03, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Saippuakauppias: Looks like it to me, but you can wait for reconfirmation from Gestumblindi if you like. — LlywelynII 22:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deleted: per nomination, except for the coin images. —holly {chat} 20:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:PD_Switzerland_(Individuality)&oldid=849318232"